Interview by Jonathan Kersting
Can a Pittsburgh robotics company really make massive mining trucks drive themselves — with no human behind the wheel?
In this episode of Tech Vibe, Jonathan Kersting sits down with John Porter, Senior Robotics Engineer at Neya, to unpack how this Pittsburgh-based off-road autonomy company is transforming one of the world's most rugged and dangerous industries: industrial mining. From ultra-class haul trucks with 15-foot-tall tires running fully autonomous load-haul-dump cycles at a production iron ore mine in Western Australia, to building the perception systems and fleet management software that make it all possible — this is a deep dive into the engineering, the grit, and the real-world impact of autonomous mining. And yes, it's all being built right here in Pittsburgh.
There are so many reasons to listen:
Whether you're into robotics, autonomy, industrial innovation, or just love a great Pittsburgh success story, this conversation will change how you think about the future of mining.
The Pittsburgh Technology Council produces TechVibe to explore Pittsburgh's technology and innovation ecosystem.
Transcript:
Neya
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[00:00:00] it's Jonathan Kersting here with the Pittsburgh Technology Council. Love giving you a front row seat to some of the absolute coolest companies right here in Pittsburgh that are building some stuff that just blows my mind, and one of those companies is Neya. And I'm talking to John Porter here today, and we're talking about, like, autonomous mining, which to me is just so exciting.
I think about things that you can make autonomous. I'm thinking of gigantic mining equipment. I'm like, "Oh my goodness." And Neya's one of these companies where you guys are just- you're at the leading edge of autonomy here in Pittsburgh, making all the right moves. I cannot wait to learn more about what you're doing as an engineer there, 'cause you're like a senior engineer there making this stuff happen.
It's not often I get to talk to someone that's actually, like, engineering these systems to do what they do, and do it safely and efficiently. Mm-hmm. It's good stuff, man. So I can't wait to learn about your background and what Neya's doing around in this, in this whole area, which I'm surpri- I didn't realize you guys were in the mining industry, for crying out loud, but now you are.
And right now, you're on Tech Vibe talking to [00:01:00] me about it. So welcome to the show. Welcome to the Huntington Bank Studios. I'm so glad to have you here. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me today. Yeah, good stuff. So first off, your background, I mean, you... Like I said, I'm a little jealous. You get, you get to work on really fun stuff.
~I mean, ~hosting a radio show and stuff like that, it's fun and all, but I'm thinking what you get to do is a lot more fun. So tell me about your background and what got you interested in being a, an autonomy engineer for Neya. Yeah, absolutely. ~So, um, ~again, my name is John Porter. I am a senior robotics engineer at Neya.
I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention our parent company, Applied Research Associates. Yes. But Neya is an off-road autonomy provider, right? We work on autonomous vehicles. And, ~um,~ my role specifically, I worked on a lot of various components- Mm-hmm ... at Neya, but perception is kind of my specialty. Nice. And for the last several years, I have been applying that to, ~um- ~industrial mining applications.
Okay. And so that, yes, that's exactly what we're talking about today. ~Um, ~I'm a very hands-on guy. ~Mm-hmm. ~I, ~you know, ~I appreciate all the really cool things that you can [00:02:00] do with software, but I love getting my hands dirty. I love it. And so industrial mining, climbing around on the vehicles- Little dirty there.
Yeah. ... is right where I'm, ~uh- ~Exactly ... I'm happy to be, yeah. I love that. First of all, I think your card needs a little flip out that says ~like, ~"My specialty is perception." There we go. Yeah, I like that. But, so ~I mean, and, ~and you've worked at a bunch of other companies here in Pittsburgh, which is great. ~I mean, ~you've got this really deep set of roots here working for autonomy companies and things like that,
I did get my master's degree out of CMU. ~Um, ~coming out of that program, I went and worked for Caterpillar for a little bit. ~Mm-hmm. Uh, ~I worked for a small startup company that was for on-road autonomous vehicles, ~you know, ~passenger vehicles. ~Um, ~and then eventually found my way to Navya- Good ... ~uh, ~where the real fun's happening.
I really think NAI is a nice size company to work for.
It's not this huge machine that you kinda get lost in. ~Mm. ~Yeah. ~You know, I've, ~I've done the startup thing and that- You like getting paid- There's a lot of- ... every two weeks, man, right? I like getting paid every two weeks, yeah. ~And, ~and there's pros and cons to the startup world as well. But, ~um, it's a, ~it's a really good size company.
You are making an impact on the products we are developing. You can actually see something that you've done in the field. Exactly, ~right. ~Yeah. I go write my [00:03:00] code, and I go take it into the field- Love it ... and I go run it around. Love it. ~Um, ~we work on a lot of different things, lots ~of, ~of products out in the kinda military and defense- ~Mm-hmm~
industry as well. ~Um, ~but then, yeah, of course the, ~uh,~ industrial mining also. Yeah. So first off, so ~our, ~our, ~our, ~our folks that are, know that everything you do is off-road, which I think is so cool. Yes. But I feel like with the ruggedness and the environments that some of your vehicles can be in, that ~it, ~it just creates this unique set of problems. It just requires an extra set of extra grit. Yeah. That's exactly right.
I can't think of a better term, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. ~I mean, ~at a high level, a lot of the subsystems are the same. You've got your perception and path planning and things like that. ~Mm-hmm. Um, ~but the challenges within those are very different. We're not necessarily detecting people ~or, ~or other vehicles, though, though we ~do ~do that.
~Mm-hmm. ~But a lot of our work being off-road, it's in vegetation- Yeah ... and negative obstacles. You don't wanna drive a robot off into a hole- No ... for example. Unless it's got those- ~Um.. ~... special treads where it'll climb back out. ~Well, ~yes. ~Fair, ~fair. We can talk to our folks over at HEBI about that. Perfect. I love it.
They have Treddy over there- Yep ... who's been lost in the Allegheny River once, but they found him. They [00:04:00] pulled him back out. He was okay. Yep. He was just missing a googly eye apparently when- ... when he, when the, when they pulled him out. So first off, ~when,~ when I got this news release about what you guys were doing with, in the mining industry, like I, my mind was blown.
~I,~ I didn't realize that NAI was into this whole mining thing. ~Mm-hmm. ~Which I think is just kinda so cool for the Pittsburgh region, 'cause I think about, ~like,~ literally mining has been going on here since like the 1750s, right? ~Mm-hmm. I mean, ~was, I think it was like Coal Hill, ~you know, ~right there in Mount Washington was like, "Wait a second, there's resources here.
We can extract them." Yep. ~Right? ~And how cool is like you're taking this- Like into the 22nd century, dare I say. Yeah. ~Yeah, ~yeah. You're absolutely right.
I'm just jumping a whole thing. Yep. So there's no pressure, okay? You better make it really good. Yep. Yep. ~Well, ~that's what we're working on. Walk us through the capabilities ~that you're, ~that you're working with right now when it comes to- ~Mm-hmm ~... to mining. ~I mean, ~apparently you were in Australia with a customer there where- Yep Making this equipment autonomous, what are the basic systems that you guys ~are, ~are, are making, ~um,~ autonomous?
Yeah. ~So, uh, ~a big piece of what we do is perception. , It's getting the necessary hardware and [00:05:00] software onto these vehicles so that those ultra class haul trucks, these massive building size vehicles- Yeah, the ones where the tires are like 15 feet tall, right?
Yes, exactly. Yeah. And you're like, "How do they change those tires?" But anyhow- Yeah ... I digress. Yep. So these are just... ~I, ~I just, ~I,~ I just love the scale of this- Yes ... how big these things are, but you're putting your code - Yeah ... onto these things- Yep ... so they can work their way through the mine site. That's exactly right.
But, ~so- ~So- Yeah ... our perception system, we've got a very robust system, lots of sensors- ~Mm-hmm ~... 360 degree sensing around these vehicles. Okay. And we fuse all of this information together and process it so that we can, ~uh,~ understand what is around the vehicle. We can, ~you know, ~we know where the roads are. We know ~if, ~if a boulder fell out of a truck, for example- ~Mm-hmm~
and we need to stop for that. Yeah. ~Uh, ~I can only imagine the obstacles and the dangers that go on within an active mine area or zone. I don't know what the correct term is, but- Yeah ... I can imagine there's lots of things that can go wrong, and your perception systems have to be able to detect that to keep [00:06:00] people safe, ~the,~ the equipment safe, and everything- Yeah
and cr- you're talking- That's exactly right ... very expensive equipment out there, ~you know? ~Yes. They can't just drive into a boulder, right? Yep, exactly. And again, this is, ~you know, ~surface mining, digging a big pit into the ground. ~Mm-hmm. ~You've got these massive high walls that are, ~you know, ~extremely steep.
And yeah, you're right, you don't wanna drive a truck off the edge of that. You lose that vehicle, ~you know, ~that's- Okay ... that's millions of dollars- Yeah ... ~um, ~that are just ~kind of ~gone.
The idea is that you're taking these giant vehicles and you're equipping them with your software, but then all the cameras- ~Mm-hmm ~... so they, ev- everything has to communicate, and then controls to then l- allow the, the vehicle to actually operate autonomously.
Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. Oh my God. So it kinda starts with perception. You get that understanding- Yeah ... of the world. ~I mean, ~because you gotta see first, right? And then- Yeah. Then, okay, where am I going? We get that into the system. Okay. We start planning that path out. It now has to go to the top of the hill, or whatever it may be.
Then you send the robot off on its way so that- On its way. Hoping everything works. Yes, exactly. But ~I'm, ~I'm just... I can imagine the amount of, ~uh,~ time it [00:07:00] takes just on your end as an engineer to be- ~Mm-hmm ~... going through the algorithms and the coding and everything that it takes- Yep
to make sure that the cameras are communicating right, that- That is then inputted to the controllers to say that, "Yeah, the camera's seeing something, so don't go there." ~Mm-hmm. ~Which makes me sound, makes it sound very simple and makes me sound very stupid- ...
that is basically what's happening. Yeah ~But it, ~but it's so complicated to make that happen. It really is. And ~so, I mean, ~we've been working on this technology for years now. ~Right. Um, ~and in 2023, we did go down to Australia, and we deployed some of our software at a production iron ore mine down there.
And mining doesn't get more real than Western Australian mining. It is- I, that is, ~like,~ hardcore, man. Yeah It is hardcore. ~It, ~it is rugged and rough and dirty down there. And, ~um, you know, ~we've deployed our software down there. It's been running on those vehicles for- Okay ... ~uh, you know, ~since we deployed it in 2023.
Approximately how many vehicles is this on? Like- Yeah, so we started off with four vehicles. ~Mm-hmm. ~We have grown the fleet since then to about- Nice ... I think we're up to about eight at this point in time. [00:08:00] Very cool. ~Um, ~I should say our customer has grown the fleet.
Yes. But, ~um,~ yeah, ~we've,~ we've learned an absolute ton over the last few years in terms of what does it actually take to ruggedize your software- ~Mm-hmm ~... and to make it such that it is ready to be deployed- Yeah ... in an environment like that. Oh my goodness, man, ~like,~ especially in Australia. ~Yeah, ~yeah. It's, ~like,~ extra rugged.
Yep. Yeah, any koala bears painted on the sides of these trucks? Yeah, no koala bears- No ... but maybe some koala- ~Those are, ~those are tough guys down there. They're like- Yeah, some kangaroos out there. Interesting. So if there's eight vehicles, ~so, uh, ~and these things are running by themselves. So- Correct ... ~can, ~can you describe, ~like,~ a day in the life of one of these vehicles, ~like,~ what they'll be doing?
Yeah. So typically we're talking about these ultra-class haul trucks. ~Right. ~And they are running what we call load haul dump cycles. ~Mm-hmm. ~And it's exactly what it sounds like. The truck's gonna go to point A. Yeah. It's going to be loaded by a shovel. ~Mm-hmm. ~We're gonna get a bunch of material in the bed of the truck, I should say. Yeah. And then it drives off to where it needs to dump that material. Okay. ~And around and around ~and around it goes. And it keeps doing that in cycles, and it's doing it- Yes ... w- and so there's no driver [00:09:00] in this truck. No driver in the truck. Not even just hanging out to make sure everything's cool.
~Well, ~we've certainly had safety drivers- ~Well, ~yeah, exactly. But, but- ... a- along the way ... ~but, ~but right now, ~the,~ the, it really doesn't require, ~like,~ a human being to be in there. Correct. It'll drive itself. Damn, that's so cool. Yeah. So from a mining standpoint, this is very efficient because first, that's gotta be ~kind of ~a monotonous job if you're a human being.
Correct. ~I mean, ~can you imagine, ~like,~ eight hours a day, you like sit there, it fills it up, and then you're probably driving out, ~like,~ 20 minutes to get to where you gotta go- ~Uh-huh ~... and then just keep doing that? Like- ~Well, well ~you say eight-hour day. They don't work eight-hour days down there. Okay. They- They're working at least 12-hour days.
It is very long working shifts. Do they get lunch breaks? ~Um, well, ~you li- you joke about that, but ~I mean, ~that's one of the benefits of autonomy here, right? Yes. Is when the vehicle is autonomous, you don't have the same kind of vehicle interruptions that you do- ~Right ~... when there is a human on board, and so that directly translates into, ~um,~ more material that you're able to move- ~Right~
and more revenue that you're generating. Exactly. And so that's exactly what we're trying to solve. ~I, ~I also feel like there's a safety factor- Yes ... in this as well too, 'cause this is dangerous work. It [00:10:00] is. Absolutely. ~I mean, ~huge machines- Yeah ... moving huge loads of material around other huge machines. It is a very, ~you know, ~rugged environment. It is a dangerous environment, and safety is absolutely one of those things that we are trying to solve out there, and we really want to separate that driver from the risk of being in the vehicle. ... If we can take them out of that vehicle, we can get them into a control center somewhere where maybe they're- That-
~you know, ~monitoring a fleet of vehicles- Exactly. That's what I was gonna ask you- ... as opposed to driving the vehicle ... 'cause people, "What about the drivers?" ~You know? ~Yeah. And it's like, ~well,~ I think there's probably higher work that they could be doing. Exactly. ~You know, they, ~they go back to that command center.
They're maybe controlling multiple vehicles. Maybe they're making strategic decisions about- ~Mm-hmm ~... what needs to happen at the mine. Based upon what they need to do that day or what they're, yeah, moving- Exactly ... and everything like that. Yeah. Wow. That, and what's I love about this the most is it's coming from you and your team- Yeah
and Nea- Yep ... here in Pittsburgh. ~Like, ~in Australia- Yeah ... making eight vehicles run by themselves. Yep. I got two words for you: Hell yes. 'Cause that, to me, is [00:11:00] amazing. I gotta see this, ~like,~ in action. ~Yeah, ~yeah. So I think we should all fly first class to Australia right now.
I love it. And we can check it out. I think- I'm on board ... Jennifer just approved it, and- Yep ... ~uh, ~yeah, it's no big deal. ~We'll, ~we'll do it next week. Perfect. Okay. I'm re- I'm ready. Nah, I love it. So much fun. ~So, ~so ~as you, ~as you've been developing more and more of this expertise around m- the mining area, things have been increasing for you guys, right?
So you gotta tell me about the global mining guidelines that you guys have been a part of with this. This sounds like this is pretty important to know that you've taken part in this.
So we recently joined this group, it's the Global Mining Guidelines Group. ~Mm-hmm. ~And these organizations are really important because autonomous mining is not going to be solved by a single group. Of course. It is going to take a partnership.
Yeah. You're gonna need to have your mine operators, your equipment manufacturers, and technology providers like Nayo. And the GMG, it gives us a space for us to have that collaboration, and we can discuss- all of our lessons learned, our best practices. We can start to develop these [00:12:00] standards that are really going to build trust in the technology- ~Mm-hmm~
and build trust that this technology will continue to work well into the future. Ah, I love that. So re- it gets you in that, it gets you in that, that room- Exactly ... with everybody. So I can only imagine the connections you make and then the mind share that- ~Mm-hmm ~... you get with that. Yeah. Oh, that's gotta be very exciting.
I just feel like this is gonna open up so many doors. ~Yeah, ~yeah, we think so as well. Wow, amazing stuff. So I can see why I got the press release on this because- Yeah ... it's ~like, ~yeah, this is, ~like,~ a big deal- It is ... for you to really ~kind of ~grow this as another core capability- ~Mm-hmm ~... of what Nay is up to in this day and age.
Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Yeah. We see a lot of potential in the industrial mining space, and that's where we wanna be, and that's what we wanna grow into. Exactly. And then, of course, ~like, as this, ~as this technology evolves, as you have more deployments, I just feel like this is gonna become more mainstay as to how mining actually gets done.
~Like, ~this won't be a novel thing. Exactly. It's just like this is just how the equipment works. Yep. Yeah. Yep. It's a slow adoption process. ~You know, ~like I said, we, when we first deployed our software down in Australia, it was on a few vehicles, but the fleet's continuing to grow. We see [00:13:00] it continuing to grow into the future.
~Um, and, ~and I think that's generally going to be an industry trend. Yeah. You're gonna have more and more vehicles out there. ~Mm-hmm. ~As the technology continues to advance, w- you're gonna be able to do more and more things with those vehicles. And, ~uh,~ and you're absolutely right. ~It, ~it's just gonna get more and more integrated into the mining operations as a whole.
Yeah, I was gonna... What other vehicles ~could be, ~could be, ~uh, could, ~could you add autonomy to? I'm ass- I'm assuming, ~like,~ obviously, trucks you got going now. Yeah. But then what else can you add to that? So the great thing about a Nayo's autonomy software is we can really integrate this technology into any vehicle that- Okay
our customer is currently using. So if somebody came to us with a dozer, for example- ~Mm-hmm ~... and they wanted to make that autonomous, we could go ahead, instrument that vehicle- ~Mm-hmm ~... and start driving that around autonomous. ~Uh, ~the big shovels, ~uh,~ that actually do the digging- Yeah ... we could certainly do it there as well.
Wow. Okay. Yeah. So it's like you could have... You could almost have, ~like,~ a whole operation- Set up to be autonomous Exactly, and that's ~kind of ~the end goal here. Okay. Let's start with the trucks. Let's get them moving materials around. Yeah. And as we get better at coordinating the [00:14:00] interactions between the different vehicles- Okay
then we expand to some of these other components. Oh, man, then you c- you got like a whole ecosystem that you build in order to keep them- Yes ... talking to each other and in communication so everything's being guided, almost orchestrated, ~I guess, ~to a certain degree. Yeah, exactly. So fleet management, and it's specifically good fleet management- ~Mm-hmm~
is extremely important at these mine sites. It has to be. Efficiency's gotta be like through the roof there, right? ~Well, ~exactly. ~I mean, ~even very minor changes to your operations- ~Mm-hmm ~... can result in millions of dollars in savings at the end of the year. Amazing. And so you've gotta be running a very efficient operation.
And so now we have our, ~um,~ fleet management software. It's called MPMS, Mission Planning and Management System. Gotcha. And that is what we use to manage our fleets of vehicles. So it is, ~uh,~ again, a ve- ~uh, ~sorry, a platform-agnostic software package that is used to coordinate all of those vehicles. And what's really cool about it is, I say vehicles, not autonomous vehicles.
Yeah A lot of these mines, [00:15:00] they are slowly bringing in this technology, and they've got lots of manned vehicles that are also operating on these sites. And MPMS, it allows us to efficiently coordinate the movements between both those- ~Mm ~... manned and the autonomous vehicles. Wow, that's so cool- Yeah ... once again.
I can only imagine the jaws that dropped ~when the first ~when the first dump truck started driving by itself and probably made the first right-hand turn. ~Mm-hmm. ~People were like, "Crikey." That's gotta be so cool. What a- Yeah ... proud moment ~for, ~for the company- Yeah ... but also for the region to know that, man, you guys are making this type of thing happen.
And- Yep ... the future sounds so exciting around s- building, like you said, the whole fleets- Yeah ... around this, and already having the technology that m- makes the fleets, that makes all the vehicles in the fleet talk to each other. Yeah, exactly. Wow. And I do wanna emphasize again, ~you know, ~this is very much is a partnership with our customers, ~you know?~
Yes. We provide some components, they provide other components. Of course, yeah. You bring it all together. And we bring it all together and we make it work, and ~it's, ~it's working really well down there. I can [00:16:00] understand why you've been at Nea for eight years because I cannot imagine having the amount of fun that you're having doing this.
Like- Yeah ... that's just gotta be great stuff. Yeah. We have a lot of fun out there. Absolutely. So what do you think about for the next, ~like,~ what's in the future? Ob- ~I mean, ~obviously we talked a little bit about the fleet stuff. ~I mean, ~that- ~Uh-huh ~... I can only imagine other things that you guys could be working on.
~Like, ~can you give me a little taste of what maybe you guys are up to? Yeah, ~I mean, um, ~I think, again, we're gonna s- continue to see more and more adoption of these technologies into the mine- ~Mm ~... sites, and that is going to enable us to do more and more, ~um,~ out in the field in terms of what vehicles we instrument, what they are doing.
~Um, ~like we just talked about a few minutes ago, ~you know, ~automating the shovels and the dozers and those other pieces of equipment. Okay. ~Uh, ~eventually we're gonna wanna get to that point. So- Oh, I think you guys are already halfway- ... that, that's kinda the end goal ... I think you guys are more than halfway there.
Yeah, we're getting there, yeah. ~You just, ~you just can't tell me, and that's okay. ~I've been, ~I've been totally thrilled with what you've told me so far. Yeah. And it just goes to show me that this has just been an amazing conversation, like- Yeah. ~I mean, ~all of the pieces are there. Exactly. ~Uh, ~and Nea offers all of those pieces.
So it doesn't matter what are, ~you know, ~the, the unique [00:17:00] circumstances of our, each of our customers, ~you know, we can, ~we can fill in gaps, we can provide them with a whole solution. Yep. ~Um, you know, ~it just kinda depends on what they need, and we can make that happen. Even if they're in Australia, which is so great.
Even if they're in Australia. That's why I always say this, is the fact that like we have Pittsburgh solving some of the toughest problems around the world. ~Mm-hmm. ~And this goes different... I can't think of anything more complicated ... than making a gigantic truck run by itself. Yeah. Like, good stuff, man. Yep.
What a great story, Sean. I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me, 'cause it, it gets me so excited to see this, this come together, and- Yeah, I'd love to come back and talk about it ... taking the time. Yeah, we need to have you come back on 'cause we want updates. I'd be glad to anytime. It's as simple as that.
No, good stuff, man. It's always great to talk to the person actually doing the work there. That is just exciting. Like, man Thank you much for being here. You are the best. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Jonathan. Absolutely. Hey, oh my goodness, you can tell we have a lot of fun here talking about these stories that are only happening right here in Pittsburgh.
It gets me fired up, and if you get fired up by this content, keep coming back. We have so many of these great stories. [00:18:00] Once again, this has been Jonathan Kersting with the Pittsburgh Technology Council, and I cannot wait to see you on the next one, everybody.
Done. Good job, man Cool. Great. That was fun. Yeah. Seriously. Got the approval? Fun, fun, fun