Business as Usual: Facebook Reality Labs

Transcription: 

So good afternoon, everyone. This is Audrey Russo, President and CEO, the Pittsburgh Technology Council always thrilled to greet the mid day with the kind of guests that we have each and every day and business as usual, today is no exception. And in a moment, I'm going to introduce Chuck Hoover. And but before we do that, I want to set up the show and give some thanks. First of all, give some thanks to Huntington bank for their support of us for so long. In every experiment that we tend to have in terms of all things, media and marketing, and pay attention to the PPP, the specs will be coming out soon, and look to Huntington bank as your partner if you need that kind of support. So also 40 by 80. That's the longitude and latitude of Pittsburgh. But more importantly, it's the wholly owned subsidiary of the Pittsburgh tech Council, and all things focused on entrepreneurship and workforce development. So you can see that we have muted your microphones. We've done that on purpose, but you can see mine. Mine is not muted, because for some reason today, I think they know that Chuck Hoover is on. And they're pretty excited. So I will mute when Chuck is talking. But let's just set the stage here. We've muted your microphones, obviously not mine. But we also have an opportunity for chat. And there's going to be plenty of an opportunity to ask Chuck some questions. So on that note, I am very thrilled to introduce Chuck Hoover. If you don't know him, he's General Manager of Facebook reality labs here in Pittsburgh. He's a good friend to the tech community. He's an amazing ambassador for all things Pittsburgh, and he is doing some really incredible work in terms of reality. Okay, and that's virtual reality. We're gonna talk about that. And hopefully, augmented reality as well. So I am welcoming Chuck, and he, we're going to just introduce him, he's going to talk about himself. So, Chuck, you are not a native pittsburgher. But you've been here long enough. And you've really embraced a lot of the amazing characteristics of Pittsburgh, and you're really able to articulate why this is such an important place. But first, let's say hey, Chuck, who are you? Welcome. Thanks for taking the time. And let's talk a little bit about you what, tell us a little bit about your professional career.

Sure. And thanks for the great intro, Audrey. And thanks again for running these conversations. So frequently, this is a really awesome group to have. Yeah, so my name is Chuck Hoover. Right now. I'm the general manager of Facebook reality labs, Pittsburgh, a bit about my background and happy to go more into this, if any of it's of interest, but actually started my career outside of technology, actually in architecture. So I went to Virginia Tech, studied architecture and design for grad in grad school there started in that industry, I realized pretty quickly that what I really wanted to do was take on more cutting edge technology, right? Like the world of architecture was amazing. It was really fulfilling. But it wasn't pushing boundaries. It wasn't exploring new technology, new ways of moving forward new ways of thinking in the way that I really wanted. So I ended up going back to school. And that was kind of the second time I came back to Pittsburgh, I came back to go to grad school at CMU worked with Randy Pausch and the folks there at the entertainment technology center back in the day, and ended up getting really excited about the game industry at the time. So after my time at CMU, I headed out to the west coast and moved to Palo Alto. And I worked at Electronic Arts and the games industry. If anybody's played the The Sims games, or game called deadspace, back a few years ago, those are some of the projects that I worked on while I was in the Bay Area. And then, you know, I liked my time at Electronic Arts, but it was a large company and I kind of missed the East Coast a little bit. So I ended up chatting more and more with one of the professors that I worked with pretty closely at CMU named Jessie shell, who had recently started up a game studio in Pittsburgh called shell games, which many of you on the call may be familiar with. And I ended up coming back east, moved back to Pittsburgh, and joined shell games as a producer there and spent about 12 years at the company, becoming the the chief production officer and really focusing as a company on all sorts of interactive projects from games to theme park attractions for Walt Disney World and Universal Studios. And eventually augmented and virtual reality projects and you know, certainly Probably the time I got to spend at Shell games, it's an amazing team and group there. They're one of the largest independent game studios in the world right now. And they really, you know, we got to become leaders in the AR and VR space. And over time, that became more and more of a passion of mine. So about two and a half, three years ago, I ended up moving over to Facebook to help support the research team here. And that's a bit about me.

Yeah. So let's talk about the research team there. And let's talk about Facebook, the labs as much as you can talk about, yeah, so one work that you can't talk about, but what can you talk about?

Right, so I guess, high level public information about us and our presence here in Pittsburgh. So most people, and when you think of Facebook, right, you think of Facebook, the website, right? Everybody knows Facebook, massive audience worldwide. Facebook also owns Instagram and WhatsApp and some other organizations and applications out there. Those are kind of the course we have Facebook, social network focus. But you know, Facebook has a lot of forward focused research work, both in artificial intelligence and in virtual and augmented reality. So our team here in in the lab I work with in Pittsburgh is a group working on the future of what AR and VR can develop to be. We also have an AI Group here in Pittsburgh as well. So Pittsburgh, actually are we actually have a couple different Facebook offices in Pittsburgh that have grown over the last few years, which is pretty exciting to see that our presence continue to grow. But the the labs mission here is pretty unique. We're entirely focused on virtual telepresence, which kind of unpack what that means a little bit. Our whole mission is for for all of us, you know, a good example would be all of us on this call right now, at some point in the future, can we have this conversation where we feel like we're in the same space together. And really the key differentiator from, you know, we could do that now, right? Like we could put on virtual reality headsets, you could say, well, maybe it feels like that. Now I can see a bunch of video screens, and you guys can see me, but it doesn't feel like we're present together, right? There's a very big difference that we've all felt over these last 10 months of not being present with people. So our mission is to be able to be present with folks across any distance, indistinguishable from real life. And that's really the key of our work. And why it's such long term research, is we want it to be able to feel like we're all in the same room together in such a high level of fidelity that there would be no difference from actually being in the room together. Obviously, the aside from being able to have a handshake, which we can't do now anyway. So maybe that's not as much of a big deal anymore. But that's the work we're doing here in Pittsburgh, we have a pretty sizable team. And we've been growing over the last few years. And we've done, you know, a lot of work to bringing that goal closer to being a reality.

So, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, I wrote you and I said, Oh, my gosh, how far away? Are you from this? Right. And I said, this would have been the perfect time to be in that world. Right? And to really elaborate that. So how far away already? What do you think in terms of, you know, the sense of time?

Yeah, it's a really good question, Audrey. I mean, we kind of joke internally a lot that, you know, maybe we'll be ready for next pandemic. Simply missed this one, but because, yeah, like what we're working on is exactly what you want and situations like this. But I, you know, I think it's also incredibly valuable for when we get back to normal life, right? This is technology if if it pans out that allow, you know, if you're able to be present with other people, truly, truly present with them across any distance. Does that change? business meetings? Does that change flights? Right? Do I know like, obviously, of course, I still want to travel, I still want to go to France because I want to eat? Right? I still want to go to the beach because I want to swim in the ocean. But what about all those trips that you don't want to take for the location? You want to take that trip for the interactions for the people for the humans? And you know, can we reduce air traffic? can we reduce commutes can we reduce business trips that are only existing and get that extra face to face connection? There's so much signal and communication that's lost when we have even a Skype video right was little thing like the fidelity that's lost in in, you know, the direction of someone's eyes, while they're shrunk to 240 by 480 pixels on a zoom screen right? When I glance off the screen, you don't have shared context of where I am at Did I just glanced at the clock or Did someone walk in the room, all that signal you miss over video conference right now. And that's the sort of stuff where if we can really be present as virtual avatars, we can gain back And maybe change travel habits. But I think, you know, there's there's certainly the the travel we do now that could be reduced. And that has large impacts on the environment and the way we work. But there's also the connections that we don't have now that we can start building, right? You know, like there's, we all know that no matter how close a relationship is with someone, whether it's a friend or a family member, when they leave when they move to another city or move to another country, or you don't work in the same office anymore, that relationship degrades over time, right, and the stronger it was at the beginning, maybe the longer it takes to degrade. But the less you see people, the less close you are with them. But what if we can give you opportunities to have that close connection to be able to play poker with your friends from college in that same room together to be able to see family or loved ones in places where maybe you can't travel to or be prohibitively expensive to travel? Right? If we can lower the cost to build human connections, and get high fidelity connections, right, like you can connect to anyone in the world right now over texting, or WhatsApp. But that's not real human communication. That's not using all of the sensors that we've evolved to be able to use to understand communication with another person. That's all predicated being on being in the same space with them. And that's really why we're trying to replicate that.

Yeah, let's let's jump, we have a whole bunch of questions here. And I'd like to jump to some of them, and Jonathan's gonna monitor them and, and convey them. So I don't know if you want to start with this question. We're

going to have Julia on the call. And hopefully, after these questions, I have a question for you as well chuck it out super impressed about when we toured your space just before the pandemic hit. So let's start with Julia here. She wants to know how, how has COVID-19 and working from home impacted the opportunities for AR and VR?

Oh, yeah, great question. So yeah, I think we were all, you know, this has all been a pretty big shock to the system. As we all move to work from home all across all across the world, really. I think there's been a lot of opportunities and use cases with AR and VR. Sadly, I don't think the technology's been there for it to have a massive amount of utility right now. You know, there are a number of VR communication systems and services right now where we can put on headsets and the avatars in spaces with each other, right? Like I have some loaded up on on my quest here right now. And I occasionally will have meetings with people at work, or even friends, I've done events with friends or other colleagues or other kind of communities of practice like this, where we've had VR engagements and conversations together. And right now, they're, they're impressive. They're interesting, you get some benefit from it, but it still feels a little bit like a novelty. So I think, you know, what's, what's missing, in my mind. And what's very much relates to the work we're trying to do here in Pittsburgh, is that it's not actual representations of ourselves, right? The avatars that represent you in virtual reality right now, you're picking from a character creator, it doesn't emote, it doesn't express, you know, it's a floating cartoon head. You know, maybe you have little circles representing your hands. But really, all you're getting is a worse voice chat, without video, but you gain some presence. Right. So I think, you know, those systems have been interesting right now, during the pandemic. I think it's certainly I think the biggest benefit, in my mind, is it's, it's made really clear to everyone what the use cases for the technology we're trying to develop. Whereas before the pandemic, you know, we talked about it with folks. And sometimes you'd have people mentioned like, why wouldn't I just Skype? What's wrong with video conference? And I don't know, I feel like we all kind of get it now where the benefit would be.

So Jonathan, keep going because

bill freeze wants to know, How close are we to the Ready Player, one immersive VR Oasis platform with haptics and all the other fun stuff that goes with it?

Oh, yeah, great question, though. I think that's what half the people working on this stuff are hoping to build either Ready Player One or Snow Crash, which actually, I think is a better book around this, this kind of tech, which is a good read. Yeah, it's really hard to predict. You know, I think, what makes me hesitant to put a timeline on it, right? Like, there was the cheaper VR system wave in the early 90s, where VR systems made it down to about $200,000 apiece, and I don't know for anybody who remembers, there started to be kiosks in the mall for location based VR, Disney actually built Disney virtual reality theme parks, to have them all based on virtual reality retract attractions. And I think then if you ask someone that exact same question, they probably answer Oh, we're probably within like 10 to 15 years of something like that. And here, we Are 25 years past that? And yeah, we're not, you know, we're a little bit closer but not that much, it actually took a while to get technology to the point where it's, it's now feasible at a consumer level, right, the quest to hear, which I don't know, I'm a little biased because we make these but this is, in my opinion, by far the best at home VR system, it's 299 bucks, which is relatively cheap compared to anything that's come before it, high fidelity, lightweight, doesn't need to tethered to a computer. So it has all its onboard compute. So it's way simpler to use. And even that doesn't have you set the spot where it feels like you're, you know, you're replacing real life. So I think we have a long way to go to replace all the sensory input that's going to make it feel so immersive that you kind of get lost in these realities. But we're inching closer and closer, there's work on haptics. There's work on visuals, there's work on audio. And really, that's what we need to replicate. But I do think when we hit that, we're going to hit some tipping point, and then it's going to be fast read, I don't think this is something that's going to drag on for 30 years, I think, you know, we have a while till technology, and all those areas, hit some bar have utility or quality. And once we pass that the use cases are going to explode when we can get to that level of fidelity. So I know that's not a specific answer, but it's not going to be soon. But you know, we're working on it, because we think there's a path to get there.

You think that 5g will help this, like accelerate this at all?

Yeah, and you know, a lot of what becomes difficult with virtual and augmented reality platforms is simply the physics of compute, and data that you need to process on these devices. Right, our goal is not to have virtual reality headsets like this, our goal is to have virtual reality headsets like this, right? that are that are like the glasses that, you know, half of us on this call are wearing, that are lightweight, everyday wearable, socially acceptable, that are that are things we can use every day. And in order to do that, we need to be able to shrink down compute and processing to, you know, incredibly small levels, or offload compute to the cloud. And being able to do that requires massive amounts of bandwidth. So 5g, and you know, hopefully, six G will be technologies that I think will be critical to be able to offload a bunch of compute to be able to get these systems smaller and smaller, so that they can be with us all the time. Which just like with smartphones, right, like the utility of the smartphone, isn't that it's a powerful computer. It's that it's a powerful computer that is always with you. Right. That's the difference between that and a PC, that that's changed so much of the marketplace and businesses out there.

Okay, well, good job and keep going.

Yeah, these they keep rolling in. We need another another hour here, Audrey to get through. As silly. So from from Todd seats, wants to know, how do you get or incorporate the biological, physiological side of the equation into your research?

Oh, yeah. So I may? Well, I hope I'm answering the question correctly. Right now, our work actually requires us to or I guess, maybe the way to put it is, the approach that we're taking this a little bit different here in Pittsburgh to create our virtual humans, is rather than trying to simulate what we think humans are, right, and this is the typical approach, right? Like this is the approach you see in in films, in games and entertainment, where they're replicating virtual humans, you've all seen or read articles about movies, where there's an actor who's passed away, or someone who needed to be augmented in a movie in some visual way. And we're using, you know, hundreds of highly skilled artists, and computers to do post processing on these images to replicate lifelike humans. And we're doing things like simulating muscles and skin, and, and movement. And these things can get us pretty far. But they require a lot of manual labor. A lot of it can't be done in real time. And the fact that we are trying to simulate a human still leads us into the uncanny valley, where our characters still feel a little bit creepy. They're just a little bit off from feeling or moving in a real way. So the approach we're taking here in Pittsburgh, and I won't go too much into it, because it would take an hour to talk through, but is really much less about simulating what we think humans are, and simulating how we actually see ourselves. So we're using massive amounts of image data of of ourselves of real people. And we're able to process that out of that those images with machine learning and computer vision to be able to develop our avatars, much more in a way of like, I guess here's a good way to phrase it. You're not looking at me right now. You're looking at pixels on a screen captured from a camera, you're looking at light. It's digitized and packetized. This isn't me at all. But I don't fall into the uncanny valley, you wouldn't say I look like a 3d avatar in a in the latest, you know, film where I've been created digitally, but this is me being created digitally. Why does this look fine? But digital creations and films don't quite get there yet? It's because what you're doing is optically mapping these digital images to what's actually happening. And which matches how your eyes work, right, which matches how your centers work. It's why the audio sounds reasonable to and that's the approach we're taking is really, can you use the same technology or the same theories that we're using with cameras and optics, but be able to scale that to represent me from any image from any angle?

So we're gonna go to some more questions, but I just want to candor tell everyone that I've ordered a quest to, and I am not slated to receive it until February 3. So how what's been the demand? Well, let's just talk about the business and the demand. And then Jonathan's gonna go to the rest of the questions.

Sure, yeah. So I will note, I can't talk about this from a Facebook employee standpoint, mostly because I'm not in that group or that team. So I actually don't have a lot of insider data on the demand. But I can talk about it from someone who follows this, you know, from a consumer level, the demand has been incredible. The class two has has far exceeded our initial sales expectations. It's done really well in the marketplace. And I think, you know, the really the systems are, it's going to be about fidelity of replication of sensors. And it's going to be about convenience. And it's going to be about utility. And I think for the first time, the quest to in my mind has gotten past the convenience barrier that previous systems struggled with, right? Like even even the cutting edge VR systems a year or two years ago, required me to be tethered to my full PC, which meant I needed to have a pretty high end PC, which we don't all have. And then I needed to put lighthouse sensors to be able to have 3d tracking, which means I have more cables on my desk, I have little, you know, stationary IR lights blasting out from my desk or screwed into the wall. My headset had to have giant cables hanging out of it. It was heavy, it was it was hot. So I think, you know, this is one of those instances where really it's it's kind of form factor, comfort level and convenience. That is kind of brought this I think such a high level of success. And I think, you know, that was a smart move on the the product team, or any product teams developing kind of onboard compute headsets, like this is, you know, that's a bigger barrier right now than then quality. You know, and now we need to chase down both of those.

I know and there's no cutting in line, folks. You just have to go in order. Yep.

I couldn't even get mine fast. I had to order it off the website like everybody else.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's, let's continue to go through some of the questions.

Yeah, I think we should jump down a little bit, because I think it'd be interesting to switch gears and then in the name of time here. So Peter argenti. wants to know, basically, can you talk a bit more about what what's going on with augmented reality? We talk a lot about virtual reality.

Yeah. So just to clarify, really, the main difference in augmented versus virtual reality of is how much of the real world are you letting in, you know, virtual reality is, is totally blocking all the light and sensory input from the outside world, you can't see the outside world when I have this in unless I go into passthrough mode. augmented reality is simply letting in some amount of more reality. And I can actually be in augmented reality in this headset, I can hold my hand up to the right side, and it'll let through a video feed of the actual room. I'm in real time. So I guess, the way I think about it is, I don't know I could be wrong. But I think these things are really going to emerge to the point where at some point, it will be inevitable in the future that augmented virtual reality, like stop thinking about it have headsets, it's just how are we augmenting your reality digitally, right. And these could be through any technology. It's just like, we've been talking about headsets for 30 years now. So everybody views AR and VR headsets. But, you know, when when augmented reality gets to a point where it's ubiquitous and powerful, all sorts of crazy things happen, right? So when I can augment reality fully, why do I need my 30 inch computer monitor here, I can have a computer monitor in my office as large as I want, anywhere I want. I can do that in virtual reality now. But when I can do that, in augmented reality, it can be in my house. It doesn't have to be on the wall. It can be floating in the middle of the room. I can have 1030 inch monitors. But then you can play that out more like well, if that's the monitor, why do I even need my PC Right, if I have really high bandwidth connection, my monitor can be anywhere my PC can be in the club, it can be anywhere, and I don't need a PC. And then you start thinking about well, okay, then I don't need a television, you know, and, you know, okay, then my wife's augmented reality glasses, and mine and my kids, they all sync together. So we can still all watch the same program at the same time. But you know that television could be shared between us in the living room. So we can have a shared sense of space, or I can be in one room, and they can be in another room, and we can all see it together. And then you play that out more. Okay, well, I, I don't need televisions, I don't need PC screens? Do I even need signage? when I'm driving down the highway? Do we need signs anymore? every sign every billboard, every highway sign, those can all be augmented in the world. We don't have to build that stuff. We don't have to look at that stuff. If we don't want to that stuff can change, it'd be relevant for us. What if the highway signs or just the highway signs for the exits I care about? Or the path I'm taking? Right? You know, and then, you know, you take it even further? What if I'm working from home and, you know, old Pittsburgh basement, and that happens to be where my office is set up? Well, I could make that look like my actual office, or I could make that look like a village in Tibet, or the beach. Right? You know, do we even need to paint walls anymore? Right? it you know, do I need these ugly curtains anymore? Like all that stuff? You can you can augment it doesn't just have to be, you know, digital name tags. I think everybody thinks of it first. It's it's really, at some point, this feels like it's going to be inevitable that you can you can change all of that with reality.

I'm, I'm so bullish on this. Right. I mean, I I'm excited. And I'm bullish. And I think about some of the things you and I have talked about offline, which include, you know, people there's, you know, an orthopedic in San Francisco that's doing training on surgery, there are people who are working with people who have autism, and are helping them there. Can you give us some of the what you think are some of the eminent use cases that you think we should be excited about?

Yeah, those are good, Adri because I think a lot of those are already happening and are a place where people can jump on in this world right now. You know, and, and, you know, there's a lot of a lot of folks on here and businesses where this stuff won't be applicable until it turns that corner. And that's okay, I think it's, it's good to learn about this stuff and stay on top of it. So you can think about how you can capitalize on it, or leverage it when it is ready for you. But you know, a lot of the technology is out of state where it's very usable and impactful right now, like you mentioned, there's a lot of work with probably the most advanced AR System right now is Microsoft HoloLens two, which is pretty incredible in terms of a world locked augmented reality headset. And this is used extensively in the medical field right now for surgical training. And it's, it's a pretty, pretty great system. But it's not priced at the consumer level, I think it's still around $3,000, it's not something you would wear out and about, you would look kind of ridiculous. But, but it's perfect for training. It's perfect for instances where training would either be expensive, time consuming or dangerous. So a lot of this is used in mind safety, it's used in medicine. And then like you mentioned, Audrey, there's applications for mental health areas as well. There's, there's a VR application that came out last year to help autistic kids with getting better at public speaking. And it was a simple VR application. But basically, it simulated a auditorium and an audience. And the audience would fade away if the speaker wasn't making eye contact with people in the audience. And it gave you an opportunity to train public speaking, by actually understanding like, what it feels like to stand in front of an audience of people. And, you know, obviously, it feels a little different than real life, but it kind of was able to reinforce the the positive structures of public speaking and making eye contact and looking around the audience at different points. And you know, they've been running trials with us and seeing pretty good results so far. So I think, yeah, there are lots of areas where very specific use cases rather than bought broad consumer work is is viable right now with the tech we have right now.

So for your advice for the business community is to pay attention, right? What's your advice for the b2b side of this? What What is your advice for us? invest in this pay attention to this immerse yourself? What are what are what's your guidance from a strategy standpoint?

Yeah, I think I think it really depends on each individual and their company and their teams and what they're trying to do. I think there are there are they're definitely folks under invested in this area right now, who could capitalize on this immediately. And then there's folks who just are going to be blindsided when this When this becomes real, when augmented reality replaces smartphones, when virtual reality replaces PCs, when all of our realities can be impacted in ways we're not even thinking of right now. And like, if you think back to the last two computer revolutions, right, the, the companies that were left behind because they were slow to adopt PCs, and, and networked machines, right? And how was the example how dominant a company like Walmart became because they were able to capitalize on low cost, PCs, scanning, logistics, and item tracking. And then you can think of the kind of NeXT Computer revolutions around the internet and mobile devices. And how that same company failed to capitalize, in my opinion, anyway, on online consumer shopping, and you know, they had the technology to be able to pivot to that really quickly. But they were a little slow in the switch to the fact that everybody was going to be online, that we were going to have mobile devices and PCs all in our homes. And, you know, Amazon saw that area and was able to capitalize it, where arguably a company like Walmart should have been much better positioned. And it's tough for obviously, established players. There's lots written about this, about how to how to stay on top of new technologies. But I think keeping yourself informed of where this tech is, it changes so fast, right? If you don't, if you're interested in this, if you don't have a VR headset again, like, go get one, I don't care if it's ours or somebody else's, but like, invest in this stuff, use it, experience it, check it out, again, every six months, it's it's evolving so rapidly, at some point, we're going to hit a threshold where, you know, no matter what you do on this call, it's going to be useful or valuable for you, whether that's now or 10 years from now. But it'll it'll probably sneak up on us.

So we're coming to an end. There's a couple of things. We've had a lot of questions, but first, Are you hiring? Are you still hiring?

Absolutely. Yep. We were very much hiring. We have an active job board. But certainly, I think you can apply generally for for Pittsburgh, if you don't see a role on there as well.

Okay. And then the other thing is, if people have questions, can they reach out to you?

Yeah, absolutely. Always happy to chat.

Okay. And then what? What is your favorite? What's your What is your go to, in terms of the app?

on no experiences of virtual reality? Yeah, um, there's two that I play often right now. And so I'm certainly I'll give a plug to I think some of our local VR experiences that are incredible shell games makes two that are out on the quest and other platforms, one's called, I expect you to die. The other one is called until you fall. I'm not just plugging them because I used to work at Shell games, or that they're in Pittsburgh, there's some of the top VR apps on our app store. They're they're really good. So check those out. My go to repeat play right now is absolutely a game called beat Sabre. It's a lot of fun. It's a it's a rhythm game. It's one of the most popular VR titles out there it, the design of the experience fits what VR is good at perfectly. And you get really good exercise. There's a lot of people who their entire workout regimen right now is simply beat Sabre. And then there's another cool one I found the other week, which I don't know a lot of people have played, it's called a fisherman's tale, which is a really cool short narrative experience in VR, that does a lot with feeling immersed in a space. That's, that's pretty clever. It's a good little puzzle game.

Listen, Chuck, we can never spend enough time with you. You are an amazing citizen of the tech community and a great champion for Pittsburgh, in addition to the incredible work that you're doing, and meeting at Facebook, I can't thank you enough for spending a little time with us and being so accessible. And I noticed that you've let your hair grow and you like many other men have grown a beard. So I did have to do a double take to say is that Chuck Hoover, but we know it's you. And we are big fans of yours. And the work that Facebook reality Labs is doing here in the community. So if you want to reach out to him, you know where to find him. We actually put a QR code on our screen so you can find him. He's He's great and passionate, and we're gonna work hard to make sure that this is an epicenter for lots of things VR and AR so can't thank you enough for taking the time with us tomorrow. We have Jeanette Solomon, and she's going to be talking about the steel Arts Initiative, Steel City Arts Initiative. So we're happy to have her at the intersection of many things. It's it's based on the north side of Pittsburgh. So we're excited to hear about the work that's going on there. Chuck, you might be interested in that work as well. So really appreciate your time. Thank you, everyone. Get a quest to On there's no short cutting it there is a waiting list for it but I highly recommend it and just want to thank everyone for joining us today. Thank you Facebook reality labs. Thank you. Chuck Coover. See everyone tomorrow. Thanks again.

Thanks, Audrey. This was fun. Bye, everybody.

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