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CivicScience CEO John Dick Talks Trends Behind a COVID Recovery

Business as Usual

Having built the only real-time insights enablement platform, CivicScience has loads of data to predict multiple dimensions of how the world will recover from the COVID-19 Pandemic. Today, we welcome CivicScience CEO John Dick back to Business as Usual to share some of the latest data on return to work, experiential buying, vaccines, return to travel and so much more. Through CivicScience's platform, brands quickly track high-level consumer opinion on the surface, as well as dive deep to gain a greater understanding about what makes consumers tick and what sets them apart. Brands gain access to tens of millions of engaged consumers, hundreds of millions of answers, and a near infinite trove of customer intelligence. Join us for what will assuredly be an engaging and informative conversation!




Okay, good afternoon, everyone, this is Ivy Roussel president and CEO, the Pittsburgh Technology Council. And I'm thrilled to have an old friend on the show today, john dica, formally introduce him in a moment. Jonathan kersting is with us each and every day is vice president of all things marketing and media for the tech Council, he'll keep his eye on the chat, we like to make this interactive. And today, we will be have a very highly engaged conversation with john deck. I also want to thank Huntington bank for being our partners right from the onset. And they have been pretty incredible partners for us for this entire year, and get to know them because they're civically engaged. We like that i woven civic science, they're civically engaged in our community care deeply about the growth region, also funded by at the wholly owned subsidiary of Pittsburgh tech Council. And you're going to hear more about apprenticeships and things of that nature that will come out of that piece of our organization. So we've muted your mics, and we have an opportunity for chat. And this is not a time for you to show off your own wares, this is a time for us to focus only on our guest, who is john dick, and he is the CEO and founder of a company called civic science, if you don't know anything about them, hopefully, you will know a lot through this next 30 minutes. But I know that you will be very, very impressed by john, he's not only funny and smart and witty, he can also sing. And for the time being, he has long hair. So he is a good friend of ours and a good friend of the tech community. But he's just, he's really just a special guy in terms of what he's built, and the persistence of all things that that really sort of matter. And it's really interesting how everything has sort of come together in terms of the pandemic and all the wisdom and some of the new things that he's done. So I want to bring on john Deke, thank you so much for taking the time with us today. Hey, let's, let's just jump in really quick. You know, there's give us one sentence two sentences about what is civic science. And then we're going to talk about the kinds of things that you're observing at the macro level, since the pandemic and some of the findings. Yeah, I

mean, the simplest way to explain it is we're consumer research company, we study consumers and their views of the world, and the culture and the economy and brands and markets. And we say that everything affects everything, and everything's constantly changing. So we, we try to study everything constantly. And that's, that's what we do.

So you but you're also up to a few things. And you've been at this for a while. So just set the table for people who don't know how long you've been doing last. And, you know, we're going to weave in a couple of things that your company has done and that you've launched that I think are pretty special.

Yeah, they're, you know, the earliest iteration of the companies goes all the way back to 13 years ago, when we originally tried to build a sort of a destination web portal to do polling and survey research and study consumers in new ways, because survey research has been kind of struggling for a long time, because historically, it was done by telephone. And that's hard to do anymore. And so we were just we spent almost a decade trying to find new ways to engage people in that kind of research. And it really wasn't until about four or five years ago that we kind of cracked the code a bit. And so we have polls administered across hundreds of different major premium publishers as big as Microsoft and Vox and BuzzFeed, and local ones of the post because at the trip, and they just allow us to collect just enormous amounts of survey data. And it's privacy compliant, it doesn't rely on cookies, like all the things that are kind of falling apart about digital, the digital, kind of AD AD tech ecosystem today is we're not caught up in all that stuff. So anyway, so it's allowed us to do just really unprecedented scale amounts of research. And after a decade of accumulating that amount of data, it's gotten smarter, making predictions about the future. And that's what we sell. So our customers are really large brands, McDonald's, and apple and Bank of America and many names like that, who subscribe to a platform we've created to help them really understand what people are thinking today.

So 13 years ago, there was a life before this that you had, what was the life before you started civic science? Oh,

I started another company as a kid taught my early 20s company called GSP. We help early stage tech and biotech companies do business with the government had an awesome experience with that was able to successfully exit that business in around 2007. And I kind of had already been thinking about the origins of civic science at that time. So didn't expect the bottom to fall out of the economy in 2008. Like it did, but I'd already committed so there we went. And so yeah, I've kind of just been been an entrepreneur for as long as I've been an adult

And I recently heard that you said you could never work for anyone else again. Oh, no, I'd

be a terrible employee. I think I'm terrified of that. Yeah, I wouldn't know how to do it.

And so a couple of things about civic science that I want people to know about almost every Saturday, not every Saturday, because I know you take a break. But almost every Saturday, I wake up to like this amazing email. I really do. It's Saturday morning, like clockwork, I think it goes out like seven or eight o'clock in the morning. And that has been like my go to sort of like my thermometer for the week. And how do you keep stay that clever? And how can people sign up for that?

Well, second question. First. It's not easy. We don't make it as easy for people to sign up as we probably should. There's a link in the email itself. And I think you could probably find on our website, or our social channels, or whatever, or email me and I'll make sure you have it. Yes, kind of a surprising evolution of something that started off as an email that I sent to clients four years ago, the first earliest distribution was like 40 people. The general idea was just that our clients wanted to hear things we were studying across the outside of their industry, basically. So the healthcare companies were interested in what was going on in restaurant and the restaurant companies were interested in what was going on in healthcare. And we didn't really make it easy for them to sort of see that bird's eye view of things. And so I started writing a weekly email out to our clients called what we're seeing, which just was a kind of a mixed bag of things that we saw across different markets, and manage just kind of took off. Now it's well over 15,000 people. So you wouldn't believe me, if I told you who reads it, I wouldn't drop the names anyway. But it's captains of industry and famous music artists and celebrities. And it's wild, but it's sort of evolved into, but you asked sort of how I do it every week. It's a some weeks are easier than others, some weeks that sort of writes itself based on what's going on in the world. And some weeks, it can be a real grind to come up with something different. I try not to follow a formula too much so that people don't see like a repetitive thing every week. And that makes it even harder. Because some weeks, I know like there's maybe been a massive new wave of signups. And I'm afraid that like that week isn't going to capture the essence of what the thing is anyway, so. But yeah, it's it's, um, it drives, a ton of our business really does like our content arc, we are a really good content marketing company, we can write about anything we want. And we can push it out to people that we know or maybe in something in the news breaks on Tuesday morning about Walmart, we can generally have a report about it by lunch and send it to executives at Walmart before you know we're having a business conversation. So

I'm serious, he can tell you that I text them after many of them and it totally resonates. For me. It's just it's sentiment, it's data. It's humor, it's easy to read, and it gets a good sense of who john dick is as a person as well as the company. And the reach that you have that that's just no BS. I mean that, and everyone should sign up. So let's so you know, you went after a market gap. So just so talk about that. And then we're going to talk about the macro of the world right now and some of your findings, do you when you started the company? You really thought there was a gap in the market?

Yeah, unfortunately, I thought that long before the market did. So I had to wait around a bit. But yeah, so you know, survey research. That's not sexy when you call it that. But even like in 2000 878, the majority of it was still done by landline telephones crazy. And then, you know, landline ownership started plummeting. And and the people who had landline phones didn't look like the ones who didn't? I don't know if I said that. Right. But then cell phones, then survey companies. So that's fine. We'll just call cell phones, because everyone has one of those problem is, is most people 70% of people don't answer cell phone calls from numbers. They don't recognize the ones who don't look like the ones who don't. And then you had the advent of what are called survey panels, which is still the prevalent means of research today. And consumer leasing consumer research, which is like people who sign up at websites and agree to answer surveys for money, or, you know, some kind of incentive. And the, you know, the dirty little secret is that the people who have time and inclination to sit at home and answer surveys for five bucks probably don't look like most of us here today. And that has really pernicious impact on data quality. If you think about the type of person who's inclined to answer surveys for rewards is going to be more coupons centric, more price sensitive, more likely to sign up for rewards programs. And when you conflate all of those things together, it gives you a really inaccurate read on on the population. And so we kind of saw that very early on and felt like we had a better mousetrap. And one of the things we've struggled with or used to struggle with, is that we would go into these really big businesses and say, hey, guess what the data you've been using is garbage. And even if they agreed with us or believed us, they didn't want to admit that to themselves or have to go tell their boss that hey, this day I've been showing you for the last decade is garbage. And so we've taken us a long time to change that. But I think we have and the company's really caught it stride. We've doubled over the last year of meaning like almost 60% of the people who work for a company I've never met, which is crazy. COVID was a big enablement for that maybe this is a good segue. And I'm not doing a victory lap. Because I know it's been a really hard time for a lot of people, a lot of companies but COVID created a premium value on on real time pneus of information, these really large businesses that we'd been selling to for years think McDonald's. We were saying, hey, look, we can give you insights into the into the population on a daily basis. And they're like, yeah, you know, we get it once a month, people's attitudes about McDonald's don't change very much. And all of a sudden, they did like that. And, and, and we were very well positioned to tell the marketplace on a day to day week to week basis, how consumers were feeling about about COVID. And then we had a huge surge in the first few weeks after the pandemic started a new business. Sorry to use the word surge. But we were we wondered how long that would last, like, okay, people are in emergency panic mode. And what we realized was then we could start we were the first ones to start talking about what the recovery was going to look like. And then we were going to start talking about what it meant when when when a surge started again in the fall. And then and then and then. And so we've just really been allowed to stay a step ahead of the rest of the marketplace. And it's been it's benefited us immensely.

Well, you know, you you collect massive amounts of data. And every Saturday at the end of your reading your Saturday update, I always sign up and take like, as many surveys as I can. How many people how what's the number of people like on a given day that are actually adding to your survey polling? Well,

I mean, at our peak last summer, we were up to about 7 million a day. Yeah, it's down a bit because people aren't on on the web as much as they were when we were in the middle of the pandemic, and the political shit show and all that. So it's down, but we're still in the orders of millions a day. And it's just, it's just, it's a tremendous amount of information that, you know, typically, you know, you see a survey, and it's maybe 1000 5000 10,000 people, as much bigger numbers than that.

So what are you seeing? What are some of the big pieces of things that you're seeing right now,

like, some of the big things have been the same big things for a year. And they're important, because I don't think people fully intellectualized these things. Number one, is that the consumer still has way more power over the pace of our recovery than governments do, or businesses. Do. You know, we obsess so much about, Oh, is this state open? And what are the restrictions and so on. And we've seen that restrictions have actually had relatively minimal impact on sort of economic climate. The consumer decides this calculus we all do between our desire for safety and our desire for normalcy. And each of us does that calculus different, we can talk about some of that in a second. So it doesn't really there's still the majority of consumers today said that even if even if my state was 100%, open, I would still remain in some level of quarantine because I don't make my decision based on what the government tells me to do or not to do. And even when we look at states that have been more say cavalier about restrictions. Yes, we've seen say like restaurant spending is up maybe 30%, in places like Florida and Texas, where there have been less restrictive restrictions. But I would argue that it's not because the restrictions, it's because the people who live in those places tend to fit of certain political tribe that are less cautious about going out to eat at restaurants. Right. And so that's, that's another point. I think that's been probably obvious to most people, but it's just overwhelmingly predictive, which is people's attitudes about COVID. And the economic recovery and vaccines, nothing is more predictive of those attitudes than the political tribe somebody belongs to. So Republicans, Republicans are in this camp democrats are in that camp Fox viewers, and I mean, it's all frustratingly predictable, right? But it's, it's simply the most predictive thing that we have to look at it in our data. So those things haven't changed. That, unfortunately, is is going to color a lot about the future in the next several months in terms of vaccine deployment, because there's still a stubborn 20 to 23% of the population that say, under no circumstances Am I ever going to get vaccinated? Are they

still saying that it's not the data as of right now? Yeah, it's

about just it's around 20% a little better, better than Pennsylvania. It's only about 16% here, but nationally, it's over 20%. And it's really two groups. It's it's Republicans who are who either think that it was deployed too fast, or that they have some grand conspiracy theories that we won't go get into about it and they've just decided they're not going When you get it or they think they don't need it, for some reason or another, they think that it's, you know, it's still a hoax or whatever. There's another group that actually bothers us a lot more, for the reasons, which is non whites. And there's a lot of historic reasons that minorities in America have been sort of left behind by healthcare innovation in some ways that have led them to believe that it's unsafe. And that's a bigger, that's a problem I hope we can solve, but it's got it's got generations of, of baggage baggage behind it that we have to focus on. So those are the two biggest things we see.

I mean, you can absolutely very understandable. What about the there's also a group that I thought and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's also people who fall into the camp of anti vaxxers.

Oh, yeah, boy. Yeah. I mean, those people Sure, yeah, that. But those have increasingly become like, like white evangelicals. It's not sort of the stereotype I think we've had of anti vaxxers in the past. So it's a little bit more amorphous. But yeah, that's a little bit of a smaller group only about only about 6% of people who say I am not going to get this vaccine are historically what we would consider anti vaxxers. These are just these are much more people who are whose whose whose trepidation is very particular to the COVID vaccine.

Anything else that you're hearing, let's let's talk a little bit about restaurants. Because I want I know that people might not know those who are listening. But john, right at the onset of COVID, when we were in our darkest times, had while his whole team was working remotely. And you know, obviously, they still are made a tremendous commitment to the restaurant community, and the local restaurant community, the non franchise, because you're wearing like Kelly's bar, lounge shirt, and I remember how you know, you, you sort of pulled the cord and said, No, we are going to keep our restaurants alive. And we're going to continue to contribute, talk about that, because you really kick something off, then that sort of woke a lot of people up. And

by that I mean, I hope it did. I don't it's hard to know how much of a difference it made. It's kind of a drop in the bucket. But we just told our team, when we all went left the office in, you know, your toe ago that we would reimburse them for any meals that they personally or otherwise at local restaurants, during Okay, and that lasted I think we kept up with that throughout August. And then it just sort of thanks to the wonders of social media. It's spread around and more and more businesses saw that and committed to doing the same thing. So that was great. But I you know, I, again, I heard I hesitate to celebrate it because I don't think it was enough. One of one of my biggest sort of frustrations or criticisms of, of our response, the government or society's response to COVID was that we weren't nearly as focused as we could have been in the areas where we could have helped write bars and restaurants hospitality, if you look back at the businesses that got PPP loans in the first round ones that never should have gotten them. We we could have focused our stimulus and our recovery investments so much better that we knew it was basically anywhere where people were going to congregate indoors in relatively stale air where the places that were in the greatest risk, both risks to the consumer, but also risk economically and we didn't do enough fast enough to support them. So I think that's a big a big whiff we had on our in our COVID response. One other thing that we don't talk enough about and we will need to talk about for decades probably is the troublingly outsized impact that the pandemics had on women. It's it's just the more we look at the data, the more staggering it is. And it's even showing up a bit now in some vaccine trepidation numbers. But But the bigger issue is that, look, we've said this from the beginning, nobody wanted to hear it. But if you maintain your job and your income through this pandemic, you are likely better off financially than you were before the pandemic. Again, we don't want to take victory laps, because we know there's been so much hardship and casualty or whatever. But the vast majority of people who've maintained their jobs and their incomes since last March are financially better off because you think of all the places we haven't been able to spend money, vacations, travel ball for our kids parking, dry cleaning, all of these kinds of things that have haircuts that have added up to put us in a stronger financial position. savings rates are way right at people even since the holiday season when a lot of people spent money over Christmas, but ever since then the saving rate has just gone up and up and up and up so that for the first time about three weeks ago, there are more Americans who say they're better off financially all Americans that are that are better off financially than the group who say they're worse off financially than before the pandemic which is crazy like on on balance, the average American is financially healthier than they were a year ago. Right which you do. to associate with a pandemic, but it's true, the difference is underneath that data is that women are significantly less likely to, to answer in the positive. Or put another way, women are much more likely to, to have experienced financial hardship because of the pandemic, and it's particularly high among working women working moms just are being significantly left behind relative to their male counterparts in this sort of financial windfall of the pandemic. And that has had huge implications on mental health among women physical health among women's stress among women. I just don't think we've talked enough about it, it's gonna be it's a big, two big thing we have to focus on as we try to come back better from from from the pandemic when it's over.

So let's dive into that just a little bit, because I knew done that. So when you talk about when you're talking about women, you're saying it's the complexities of those who have to have have the burden of responsibilities that are outside of their work. Are you talking about all women got parents? Yeah,

I mean, it's, it's, so it's women. It's kind of two groups. So it's all women? Well, I don't over generalize, it's, it's far more common among women that there's there's the experiencing of financial hardship. There's two groups. One is younger, like 18 to 29 year old women. Why? Because those women tended to work in service jobs, frontline worker jobs, things like that, where the pandemic just hit them harder, they may may be more likely to lose their job. They were waitstaff or bar staff at a restaurant, call centers, things like that, that were shut down. So that younger group has been financially left behind the next group are working professional moms, or previously, so 5 million professional women have have left the workforce since the beginning of the pandemic. One of the biggest reasons why is the wage gap the problem that we still have, women still make 80 cents on the dollar compared to men, which is effing tragic travesty. But when you think about has families had to reshuffle to say who's gonna stay home with our kids. Now that our kids are home from school, and you'd say, look, otherwise, it would be a coin flip between the male and the female. What if women on average make 80 cents on the dollar less than men? Guess who loses the coin flip when the decision is who's going to stay home and who's not. And you do that at a massive scale, like we've done in the country over the last year, and women just bore the brunt of that. And there's lots of other cultural things going on as well. Women have have systematically long before COVID but but increasingly have taken over more and more household responsibilities and major purchases, real estate, car purchase, things like that, and then haven't picked up the slack. men aren't taking on greater household responsibilities in areas that were traditionally women, at least not at the same pace that women are taking on household responsibilities that were traditionally male, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense in the hospitality industry, as well as the health care industry as well. They're making less than 80 cents per day. Yes.

So now,

right. Quick question from Justin. Here, john, good

seeing you. As always, your insights are absolutely amazing. curious to see your reaction to this question.

The softball questions I sent you to ask me. Yes,


So here comes your way. And it's

given the rise of Xena phobia alongside the pandemic on his civic site see any data related to the rise in anti Asian harassment and attacks? In the sentiment in general?


I mean, we I don't think we have um, I don't think you need data to measure something like that. I think we see it before on ice, right? I mean, I'm not sure that there's I don't this is not a data necessarily debate data source supported point of view. Or maybe because it's not is but we don't have data that necessarily says people are more Zena phobic. I think what's happened is being Zena phobic has become more. I don't want to say acceptable, but more more prevalent in certain populations of the country. Right. And so it's just more evidence, right, people aren't hiding it like they may be used to. And so that's not the kind of thing we would be really good at measuring the news is good at measuring that when it's when it's plainly evident and insight in plain sight. We see it on social media that that's that's the sign that it's it's becoming I wouldn't say more prevalent, but just more more public, I guess.

Okay, so let's wait we have I want to pack in these two pieces. So are there any sentiments or any findings that employers should know about what employees are thinking? Like in terms of work in terms of life? Are there anything that you're collecting data on that might be telling?

Oh, yeah, I mean, there's nothing more profound In my opinion, and more permanent about this pandemic than the extent to which it'll change the future of work. We will never, ever go back to the way was before, and we probably shouldn't, you know, we've had this amazing social experiment, right? Like, let's just all of a sudden make everyone go home on the same day and never let them come back and see what happens. Right. And, you know, we've learned, first of all companies had to rapidly accelerate their ability to support that. But first of all, the vast majority of consumers who've worked from home are happier having worked from home, right? Not that we wouldn't rather like to see our co workers a couple days a week or whatever. But by and large, the vast majority of Americans are happier working from home. So much so that 41% of Americans say that they would actually be willing to work for less money, if given the opportunity to work from anywhere they chose to work. Yeah. Which is absolutely important. Okay. Yeah. 30% of Americans say that they would physically move from the city or state that they live in, if they could work from anywhere they want. That number goes up to almost 40% among people under the age of 29. It goes down a lot among people who have kids, because of course, that can keep them tethered to wherever they are. But but but that means there's they're not staying because of their job, or because they like where they live, they're staying because they want their kids to have the stability of staying where they stay. Right. So all of those things make employment a much less sticky thing, right? Because I don't want to I'm not going to move for a job like you think about think about some sub sub categories of services that may they may they may struggle in the long term like relocation companies, like, why would I spend a fortune to relocate somebody to from from, you know, Pittsburgh to wherever if I don't have to anymore. It's going to change, it's going to shuffle a lot of where and how people live, if you think about, say, a place like Bentonville where a lot of people live because they worked for Walmart may not choose to live in Bentonville if they didn't have to. So what's that going to do to a town like Bentonville? It could presumably help a city like Pittsburgh where someone says yeah, like I want an urban setting. And some of the good things that go with that. But I don't want to have to like commute the night, 90 minutes a day into Manhattan every day, right? So we're going to see a lot of shuffling of people moving around. And that's going to have different implications in different cities. So so the desire for remote work in the future is maybe one of the most powerful lasting implications of the of the pandemic. By and large professionals aren't, like hankering to go back to work. So when you ask them when they expect to or desire to go back to where I mean, and I say go back to physical office space, the largest percentage, when we asked people who are still working from home, when they expect or want to go back, the largest percentage of people say that they it's going to still be six months or more. Some of that's desirable, but so like, aspiration, no, that's what they think. Yeah, so we're still far off.

So what about travel? What do you think? I mean, air. It's not been business travel. That's picked up? Yeah, absolutely. Then leisure travel.

Yeah. And I think that's going to explode. So much so that you start to have inflationary fears about it, because there's going to be so much incredible. I mean, I've been invited to throw on three trips to Vegas in like November, like with friends, like, okay, you know, right, like, I couldn't survive three trips to Vegas. And yeah, there it is going to the return of so called experience spending is going to be just massive when when we get on the other side of this, you're going to have you know, bands are having trouble booking venues because all the bands are trying to book venues at the exact same time. Getting hotel rooms and things like Vegas and wedding, even wedding sites and family reunion sites are like already overbooked. So that's going to be nuts. I don't expect business travel to come back ever the way that it was because it's not necessary. It's expensive. It's expensive for the company. It's it's emotionally and physically expensive on the person who's doing it all the time, I'd like to have a little bit of it back. But you know, travels traveling three out of four weeks, half ago, I don't ever need that back again. I also think that in our in our business, like a lot of its to go see customers, I don't think the customers are going to have the same expectation anymore. So it's going to there there there will be a little bit of level setting I think as because if my competitors are all traveling to go see my customer, I'm gonna feel a little bit more of a keeping up with the Joneses with it, but I still think the data suggests that it's never gonna get back to where it was before.

So how about like a john dick pinion question here right now this comes from Robin, what can Pittsburgh do? Take advantage of attracting relocating professionals from high expense areas, any data that you have that might be telling or giving us any kind of advice?

I mean, I don't know if it's anything that we haven't been, I would focus more on what the lifestyle is like here, then we would about you know, our job opportunity per se, right? Because that's that, not that we don't have job opportunity, but job opportunity is going to become fairly commoditized. Right? Because it doesn't matter where you work, or excuse me where you live versus where your company is based on You know, it's it may actually be sort of a coming of age for Richard Florida's entire view of the world, right? 25 years ago, which I always was a little cynical about. But But if, if, if if bringing creatives or if you want to call them that anymore, but if you bringing younger mobile people to your region is going to be less about work job opportunity than it is about lifestyle and connectivity. So connectivity is super important. Like, are there? Are there working spaces? Are there you know, is there the best possible internet accessibility everywhere I go, right, those kinds of things. And then how do we tell the story about get the culture and restaurants and all of that stuff from that you want from a city urban experience, but be able to go you know, kayaking and hiking and not have to spend, you know, a million dollars on a, you know, 800 square foot house right. Like that's, that's the story, I think we can tell.

Listen, we've tried to pack a lot in, there's a lot to your company, a lot of findings, there isn't an area that you haven't done any research, I advise everyone to reach out to civic science, if you're actually interested in trying to gather some data on a specific topic, a particular domain, reach out to civic science, because I know that they can be more than helpful. Sign up for a Saturday, email, you will not be you will be happy when you receive it as I do. And you can take a whole bunch of his polling at the end. Sometimes I do that for like a half hour, and make sure I answer a whole bunch of questions which always fascinate me just in the way that he asked the questions and, and the iteration they're up. JOHN dick is in a an entrepreneur that is doing incredible things right here. I don't know how many people are working for you right now. And if you're hiring, but I know that you hired a bunch of people, as you mentioned earlier, during the pandemic that you've never met in real time. So Are you hiring right now?

We are. I think, yeah, we still have several open positions. So I don't know what they all are off the top of mine, also available on the web. Also, we have a podcast you should check out.

Oh, yes. And say and talk about the podcast,

though. We just we just wanted to explore whether the content we produce, which is mostly blogs and newsletters could travel through audio and so far, so good. It's been consistently sort of top 5% of podcasts on Spotify and apple. So it's the it's it's our it's our marketing engine is our content and it seems to travel. It's great.

It's great. I am proud to know you. I'm glad that you like watch that, that you've made your home here, and you're ultra talented, ultra funny and care a lot. And the next time we see john dick is going to be cutting his hair off, unfortunately, because he is how long has it been john? A year over a year? I

bet my kids that I wouldn't cut it until I got vaccinated. So April 28. I'm going to go straight from the second shot to get my haircut cannot.

Alright, well, I can't thank you enough. Stay safe. I'm glad to get vaccinated. appreciate all that you do. Reach out to john follow him. You won't. You will not regret it for a second. So thanks, Jonathan. What's coming up.

Tomorrow we have Hayden cardif, the CEO of idylic talking about their $20 million Series B raised they did a couple of weeks ago. fast moving company. They're in hiring mode as well too excited to welcome him to the show tomorrow.

That's great. So thanks, everyone. Enjoy your day. Thank you, john deck

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