Playful and practical, the new book "When You Wonder, You're Learning" introduces a new generation of families to the lessons of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. We are excited to welcome Gregg Behr and Ryan Rydzewski to Business as Usual today to detail the inspiration for authoring this amazing book. By exploring the science behind the iconic television program, the book reveals what Fred Rogers called the “tools for learning”: skills and mindsets that scientists now consider essential. These tools—curiosity, creativity, collaboration and more—have been shown to boost everything from academic learning to children’s well-being, and they benefit kids of every background and age. They cost next to nothing to develop, and they hinge on the very things that make life worthwhile: self-acceptance; close, loving relationships; and a deep regard for one’s neighbor.
Transcription:
So good afternoon, everyone. This is Audrey Russo and is Friday in Pittsburgh. And I'm the president and CEO of the Pittsburgh Technology Council. thrilled to be here very What a great way to wrap up our week, I will formally introduce our guests in a moment. But before I do, I would like to give a long appreciation to Huntington bank for being our partners right from the onset since the end of March, or the middle of March of 2020. Here, we are still doing this work. And we get a chance to talk to some of the most incredible people around and today is definitely no exception. We also are sponsored by 40 by 80. That's the wholly owned subsidiary of the Pittsburgh Technology Council. And you're going to hear a lot more about what comes out of that group, which includes apprenticeships, for people in technology, as well as the continued work that we do supporting entrepreneurs. So stay tuned on that. And we're very committed to learning and education and, and all things about building tomorrow. So we've muted your microphones. And Jonathan kersting is with us. As always, he's vice president of all things, media and marketing for the Pittsburgh tech Council. And he is monitoring chat, and hopefully we'll have an opportunity to, you know, jump in and have some good questions of our guests. This is not an opportunity for you to sell your wares, this is an opportunity to only focus on our guests. And on that note, I am thrilled to be able to bring back, Greg bear, he's going to tell you a little bit about the work that he is up to this is he was on the show, we were just trying to figure it out. I know he was one of our early guests. You know, he jumped right in as we were trying to figure out what the world was like 1312 months ago. And he joined us and he has been just an incredible leader in our community in terms of all things focused on kids making this a place for destination for kids and families. And what what the new world of learning really is. And he has just turned a lot of things upside down and probably right side up. So I can't thank the work that he has just been the champion of. And he's been an incredible partner to the tech council as well as the entire region. So thank you, Greg, for joining us today. And being such a good friend and being just such a solid human, for all of you.
It's a complete honor to be here. And you know, as we reach the end of the school year, what a great moment to celebrate what our educators have done all across this region, right? You think about the early childhood educators and what they've done in the early learning centers, what's happened to the out of school time space with the learning hubs all across the county, in the region, and what our schools have gone through, and how you know, despite whatever challenges and problems, when Teacher Appreciation comes up in a few weeks, we need to celebrate, give gifts, you know, applaud our educators all around, they have been flexible, deft, creative, responsive, they've been absolutely incredible. And what a great moment to celebrate them
really is and what a great moment for us to now bring in your co author and partner, which we're going to talk about in a minute. And this is Ryan resist ski and I want to do not do any disservice to his name. And he is actually works with Greg, and they have a history together. But you know, we're gonna, we're gonna really focus our concentration on on the release of this book, okay? And that is just in and of itself, look at it, when you wonder you're learning and he's got the picture up there is already available on Amazon, you can't you but you can't get it yet on Audible, but you will in a few days. So you know, hurry up and order it. But I think once you hear us talk, you're really gonna understand why this is so important, not just for Pittsburgh, but for the world. So Ryan, welcome as well. And just tell us really quickly about how you fit into the work with with Greg. And then we're going to jump in and sort of talk about the book and talk about that work. Sure.
So first of all, thank you so much for having me. I have been a freelance science and education reporter for about five years. And the majority of my work I've spent with Greg and the grayble Foundation, writing about learning science, writing about innovations and learning, writing about the future of education and work. And I think a lot of that, in many ways. The book is sort of a combination of many things we written about with the very special friend Rogers cook, which we can talk about.
Yeah, we are gonna talk. We're not we're not that so we're very excited to listen, I like to say, and Greg has probably heard me say as I like to say I'm the coolest job in Pittsburgh but I think on a day like today, I probably don't My call, it's probably the both of you, who are really taking the flag and sharing it with the world, which I know that Greg in his work, and has, has always done and has really escalated and has always done. But I get to interview the both of you who have really unraveled and I think worked together on this for three years. And not many people get to do that and get get get to understand a guy like Fred Rogers and, and have the intro of your book. Luckily, before she passed away, have you know, Mrs. Rogers, right, the intro. I mean, I have goosebumps just thinking about that. And I mean, I'm so glad that you did this. And you had the opportunity to hear from her. So let's talk about when you wonder, you're, you're learning. Let's talk about that. And let's, you know, talk about like the history of it. Why did you do Why? Why do we need to write about this now?
So thank you, Audrey. And it's hard not to begin by, you know, we need to acknowledge Joanne Rogers, right, what a gift what a champion for kids. And that was in our own right, and what a champion and supporter she was for me and Ryan, beginning three years ago, when we first had this inkling of a book and dirt through the duration of the book. And we just like so many of you and others miss her so much. So why did we write about Fred Rogers, our book when you wonder is in part about Fred Rogers, but it's a very 2021 version of Fred Rogers. And looking forward, we're lucky kids, right? We grew up in western Pennsylvania, we got to watch the neighborhood as kids, he's a childhood hero. But as adults who have the privilege of working in education and learning, and trying to be remarkable allies, to our teachers, and our librarians, and artists, and others who are supporting kids in incredible ways. One of the things we began to notice 15 years ago, really, and it's just become more pronounced since then, is this idea of the Fred method. Right. Fred Rogers, in a sense, left us all with blueprints. On one hand, yes, he was that loving, caring figure that we all saw on our television, he was deeply grounded in child development theory and practice what today we would call whole child theory, right. And he was also someone who was a learning scientist, they certainly didn't use that term in 1968. But he was someone who was who had trained with the likes of Margaret McFarland and Benjamin Spock, and Erik Erikson. And he was also an innovator. He was a disrupter. He was radical. He saw the technology of his day, right? And said, How do I make this technology constructive and good. And we have in our midst all sorts of people in our Carnegie libraries, in some of our schools in places like the Manchester Craftsman skilled, that are essentially employing that Fred method of connecting whole child with what is innovative and future facing. And it's that story that we wanted to tell a story about education and learning, grounded in something as familiar as Fred Rogers, and what he presents and why that legacy he gave us is so important for our future.
Yeah, I would add that, you know, if you look at the latest learning science, if you read the latest papers, if you talk to today's experts, the things they're talking about are listening to children. They're talking about feeling, making sure children feel safe, psychologically, and physically. They're talking about making sure kids feel a sense of belonging, they're talking about creating beautiful physical environments, all these things that Fred was doing 50 years ago. And you know, he was just that far ahead of his time. If you if you look back at the neighborhood, and you look at the tools for learning, Fred was trying to teach those same skills, those same mindsets are exactly what today's scientists, today's workplace experts are saying, are most important for kids and their success. So it's really it's a remarkable aspect of Fred's legacy that is often overlooked, and I think we're trying to elucidate in this book.
Well, you had a chance to spend some time with Joanne Rogers, you know, post the passing of Fred, and she knew that you were working on this book, obviously, she got the intro. What would she be saying right now, if she was here with us?
Well, first of all, she was such a warm and caring person, she'd probably be just, she'd be hugging all of us. I mean, she just had a warmth and a love. And I think she would remind us that Fred didn't want us to be Fred. Fred wanted us to be Audrey and Greg and Ryan. Right. Fred Rogers and Joanne Rogers wanted us to be our full and authentic selves drawing upon what we know about learning and what is brought about doing it. doing the things that we can in our early learning centers in our schools and our museums and libraries that really connect with with that Fred method, right to be informed by it, to be instructed by it. But to do it in our ways, knowing kids futures today and where we're going. And I think she would implore us to be our best selves in that.
I think also. So Fred and Joanne both adopted this sort of lifelong ethos of being advocates rather than accusers. And I can't speak for Fred or Joanne. But I do think that they would be proud of the way parents, the way educators and the way kids themselves have adapted to this really, really hard times that we've been going through over the past few months to a year, I think she'd be proud of the way folks have innovated, I think she'd be proud of the way folks have in many ways bounced back. And I think she'd be excited about, you know, the ways people are trying to build a better future rather than, you know, going back to necessarily the way things were.
Yeah, I am, I'm imagining her saying all that now as just visualizing it. So you know, not everyone has, has the opportunity to have their own television program, right? Not everyone has been, you know, many of us dream of lots of things, but you know, he or in the world renowned for his work. And as someone who's myself is not from Pittsburgh, Fred Rogers was known all over the world. And, you know, for his work for his style for the curation. But you know, many of us have an opportunity to be parents. And, you know, what are some of the things that parents on this call or people who are going to listen to this after we posted it should know about raising creative, curious and caring children? And and how do we really cultivate that and keep at it, keep at it, you know, we have the backdrop of the pandemic. But in keep that, because these are, you know, we've seen a lot of women drop out of the workforce this last year, you know, really trying to be committed, realizing that they can't have it all. And being amazing parents, people have, you know, lived with their kids being on zoom, etc. What about the reaction to that?
So Audrey in the book, in each of the six chapters, we try and close each chapter with very practical ideas, often drawn from actual classrooms and actual neighborhoods of things that parents can do, the teachers can do, I'm going to give you a very personal answer. And I will try not to cry as I do so. Because you can imagine a project like this has also challenged me personally, right? It's challenged Ryan personally. And I found myself questioning, raising my own daughters and what I was doing and how I was doing it. And a number of weeks ago, racism crept into my own home. And I will be the first one to acknowledge I'm a white man, I have all sorts of privilege in my life. I have never heard my child say, Daddy, am I going to be shot? Right? And my older daughter asked that because as a nine year old, she's developing an identity. And, and she recognizes that she's partly Asian. And in, in a world where we're, we've seen, you know, terrible increase in hate crimes against Asian Americans and the shootings in Atlanta. You know, as much as I try and protect my daughters, that news crept into our household. And so I was stopped cold one Friday night when when my daughter said, am I going to be shot? Right? And I mentioned that because immediately, I thought of all of those lessons that I've drawn upon and learned and had insight about in preparing this book. And one of the things Fred does, and did so well is right, remind us, one about the importance of respecting kids questions. And two, that physical and psychological safety is the basis for everything. Right. So first, I had to accept the question. I had to respect your question. I couldn't ignore it. And Fred didn't ignore the hard things, right. He brought assassination and racism and other harsh challenges of the world into the neighborhood. But as one of people who've written about the neighborhood, have said, like, he didn't like that destroy the opportunity to learn, he brought in the hard questions, but didn't let it destroy the canvas. And so one, I gave her the assurance that you're going to be okay, right. You're gonna have to navigate these things. We're going to do it together. But I had to acknowledge it. But to it was just acknowledging of the of the question, it was not only giving her safety but acknowledging the question, acknowledging that I didn't know the answer, and that we were going to figure that out together. And incredibly that's, that's Fred Rogers Neighborhood, right? It opens with a frenetic energy you come into the neighborhood, you know, there's energy, you're calm down, you feel a sense of safety and belonging, and then you start to wonder about questions. together. And sometimes those questions are really hard ones like the one I was confronted with within my living room. And I feel like there are all sorts of lessons for us in the more mundane ways of life in classrooms and home, but also in some of the hard ways, like I've just tried to share, I think, I think Greg's response to his daughter sort of exemplifies one of the studies we outlined in the book.
There was this study done by the University of Washington back in the 70s, and 80s, where they split school children into two groups. So one group, their parents and teachers got help building stronger relationships with kids. The other group was the control group, so their parents and teachers didn't get any sort of special help. The researchers followed these kids, I think it was 800 kids for decades. And in fact, they finally published the results in 2019. And what they found was the kids whose parents and teachers had gotten extra help building strong relationships were outperforming their peers on everything, they were happier, they were more likely to vote, they're more likely to be involved in their community, they were making more money, they were even more healthy physically. And the scientists boiled it down to this really beautiful, simple statement for parents, and they just said, the most important thing you can give your children is your presence. That means playing with them. That means asking them what they need. That means listening to their questions and giving them space to have these big feelings, especially when scary things are happening in the world. A big theme of the neighborhood is that everything that's mentionable is manageable, that all feelings are valid, even if As parents, we don't always agree or understand those feelings. And I think like Greg said, just accepting the question and wandering alongside with kids is just, it's invaluable advice, not only for parents, but for anyone who works with kids. And I think it applies, you know, even to some adult interpersonal relationships
as well. Right? I would, I would tend to agree with you. So you know, the intersection of art and technology. And Greg knows this is critical to our culture. And the reason why I say he knows this, is he knows that I've been talking about this for a long time. And we've we've at the tech Council have run lots of experiments, lots of programs, about the intersectionality, of at one point that was considered strange bedfellows of art and tech, you know, Fred Rogers actually helped build these intersections. It wasn't us. It wasn't me. He built these intersections right here in Pittsburgh first program. And, you know, where are we now with that? What do you what do you think, like, where are we because, you know, you talked early on, like, here's your phone. Fred had the TV, you know, this was his platform. He definitely combined aesthetics, social issues, you know, emotions, etc. where, you know, where are we now with all of this? And what did you find that was surprising in the research, in terms of his head around that stuff?
regionally, I would say we're in a wondrous place. And Audrey, I think of the incredible work that you all have done at the Pittsburgh Technology Council, and also our colleagues at the Allegheny intermediate unit, and other schools around the region. It's, it's become so normal in 2021, to talk about steam learning, you know, the science technology combined with the arts 1015 years ago, that was not normal at all. Right, we can't take for granted.
Greg, right. thought we were crazy. Remember that?
And it's and and now it's just so normal. Right? And so I mentioned that to say, two things. One, one of the things we're seeing for educators is a real tension to project based learning that integrates Arts and Technology, but does so in trying to solve a problem, a problem in school a problem with humanity. So it's, it's it's work that's expanding to solutions bake based problem solving, and to the way that steam has become so normal across our region. I think it bodes well for the types of things that educators have experimented with tinkered more with during this pandemic period and say, how do we make this normal on the other side of the pandemic? We've been flexible. We've been deft we've integrated technology, enhanced learning, we've improved school parent relations, we've even done zoom meetings as teacher meetings, like just things that we can make normal on the other side of this pandemic. And, and Fred laid that groundwork 50 years ago, right? He was a learning scientist, but he was also the puppeteer. He was the musician. He was writing all of those things. I mean, he was an artist. He was an artist and a scientist in his work.
I would say off an engineer, I would say he was also an engineer. Hmm,
absolutely. I think that that the the best art is informed by science. So even if you look at for Rogers even in terms of his formal qualifications, as an undergraduate, he studied piano composition, and he was a lifelong player along with his wife Joanne. at the graduate level, he studied child development and theology. He was an ordained Presbyterian minister. So you have art, science and spirituality, all colliding in this beautiful way in the neighborhood. And I think that we see a lot of that reflected, like Greg said, in places, or all or all throughout Pittsburgh. In the book, we profile the Manchester Craftsman skill where kids are learning ceramics and photography and digital arts. we profiled the Steeltown Film Academy where kids are making these incredibly moving documentaries about people around Pittsburgh, we profiled allowed at the Carnegie Library, which is a space where kids can go in and use laser cutters, and they can record music. They can design things. I think Pittsburgh very much is living up to the Rogers legacy of of combining art, science and spirituality in some really exciting ways that are attractive to kids, and grounded in learning science.
So again, I'm going to go back and say imagine, like, you know, we talked about when, you know, he went live with TV was in the midst of disruption, right? It was at the beginning of not everyone had a TV in their home, right? And then it became, you had TVs in every room, you watch TV while you were eating, you know, we sort of morphed, morphed into that. And you know, what, what do you think he would say about the new things like Tick Tock clubhouse, you know, you to Twitter? What do you think he would say these, they compete in so many ways for the attention and creativity of young people? And sometimes I would say their attitude as well, when sometimes they're distracted.
So again, I don't think Ryan and I would ever pretend to know what Fred would say. And knowing what we've learned from the Fred method, and the way that he approached the technology of his day, what's instructive about his work, he would say, well, these things are attractive to kids. How do we make them constructive and good? And yes, as adults, we should have anxiety about these new technologies, things with which we're not familiar, but I'm sure that was true. When the printing press was invented, right? the printing press opened up all sorts of new worlds. This device, then is about 12 years ago, it's opened up world. So whether it's new hardware software, like Tick Tock or other things, the question before it's always is, how do we make this constructive and good and developmentally appropriate? I think that's the call.
So, Brian, did you want to add to that? Um,
no, I don't think I have too much to add, except to say that Rogers was very much a realist when it came to technology. I mean, he was horrified. When he first saw television, he hated it. He said, he saw people throwing pies in each other's faces. And he easily could have dismissed this as I think some adults are sometimes tempted to do with things like Tick tock, as you know, this is for the young people, I'm not going to get involved. Rogers had a very clear eyed sense of just how ubiquitous technology TV was going to become. There was we shared this anecdote in the book of in Toledo, Ohio, when, when television was first starting to become big, the water company had this big problem trying to figure out why was water use surging at the same time every single night. Eventually, they realized it was because of television, all families were going to the bathroom during commercial breaks at the same time, every night. So I think Rogers recognized that television was here to stay and he was going to have some very real, measurable impacts on kids on society and on the the ways we live.
So you spend time, right, you had a chance to spend time with with Joanne Rogers, you, you know, you've done a deep, deep dive right on in terms of his life, his approach, you put together this book, it's gonna get released. You know, it's already on Amazon, you can go out there, you can find it, you can pre order it, I guess it gets released on the 20th of this month. So you know, it's it's an audible, there's no excuses for any of us not to read this book, or listen to this book. I mean, that's a fact. Right? It's true. There is no reason. I mean, Mr. Rogers lived right down the street from me, his house sold in 24 hours. I don't know if you heard that it made national news that, you know, his house that he lived in in the 70s and 80s was up for sale and someone bought it so we so fascinating to see. But what what would we be surprised about what are some of the things that we might be surprised about about him and Joanne Either one.
I'm sorry, what do you say? Right? I said Go ahead. Oh, so I can tell you what surprised me. And this isn't necessarily a quirk of his life and Rogers life is is very well documented. I think the first thing people always ask about him is, was he really liked that in real life? And I'd never had the pleasure of meeting him. But everybody who I've talked to has, the answer is universally Yes. He really was like that. I think what surprised me though, is that sort of feeds into the myth of Rogers, the saint Rogers, this guy who was who none of us could ever be like, because he was just so nice to kind. What surprised me when researching this project is yes, Rogers was an incredible person, but he got that way. By working at it, you know, he would get up at 5am every morning and think about, okay, who am I going to interact with today? How am I going to treat them? How am I going to make them feel? How can I pray for them? None of none of what you saw in Rogers himself, or in the neighborhood was an accident, it was the result of careful study, it was the result of in being informed by the learning sciences. And it was the result of being surrounded by people who are guiding him every step of the way. He had some incredible mentors. So I think knowing that is both freeing in a way, because Rogers didn't have some special gift the rest of us don't have. But it also, you know, it puts the responsibility on us. Like if Rodgers could do it, that means all of us can do it. And I think we have, we all have a responsibility to, in our own way do a version of what he was doing,
I would say, Adria, you, among others have taught me so much about innovation. And I've heard innovation described as finding something new in something familiar. So for me going into this project, Fred Rogers and that television show were so familiar, deeply familiar. For me, the new thing was seeing Fred Rogers as a learning science, which is a way I'd never thought about him at all before. And in each of the six chapters in the book we try, there's a an introductory theme, curiosity, creativity, we ground you in Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. We elucidate decades of learning science in ways that we hope are very readable, give all sorts of examples in schools, museums, and libraries, where this is playing out all around us. And then give us very practical examples to Ryan's point about the things that we ourselves can do. And seeing Fred Rogers in this light, and as someone who left us some ingenious blueprints, about what might constitute the future of learning, is the thing that was for me new, and I suspect for many of the audience will be new as well.
Is there a sigh of relief? How do you feel right now that the book is getting ready to be in people's hands? What are the emotions that both of you are feeling? Is it relief? Is it fear is excitement? Is it you're worried?
I think it's it's all of those I am absolutely terrified. And I'm so excited. And I am glad it's over. And I'm sad, it's over. It's really a combination of all of it. It's been the absolute. I mean, I can say for me the privilege of a lifetime writing this book, and talking to the incredible people who are really following Rogers footsteps in some amazing ways. I hope people love it. I hope people love it as much as we love writing it. I hope that we got it right, because like we were saying, before we got started here, everybody in Pittsburgh seems to have a personal connection. But overall, I would say I'm grateful.
I share Ryan's anxiety and nervousness and complete exhaustion. And Andre, you can imagine like, I got to hold this in my hands for the first time this week. You know, and whether you're baking a cake cake, or you're playing a composition on the piano, like to be able to make something. I mean, there's just there's a real joy in this right? Like, Oh, my gosh, I was part of this. So there's that wonder about, wow, we did this three years of hard work. And we did this. And I share Ryan's Hope. But we wrote this book for America for the world. I mean, we clearly believe deeply that that Fred method is something that should inform our work as we go forward as we try and create wondrous, creative opportunistic futures for our young people. There is something so incredibly instructive about what Fred Rogers did, and what we can do, whether it's in our own home, in our school system and the state government, wherever it is what we can do to create the futures that our kids deserve. And we're home. For the this book as part of that story, part of that narrative narrative, part of what gets us moving to do that work,
you know, thinking about this conversation, knowing that I'm going to get the book, knowing that people already are writing in the chat that they can't wait to read it. And knowing a little bit about Fred Rogers, from people who have worked with him, you know, during his time, at QED, the word that really resonates with me with all of what how you both described it also aligns with the pandemic. And in terms of the journey that we've all gone through, is this whole thing about intentionality? And I hear that in how both of you have have talked about yourselves. Now you've talked about the book, you know, and you've talked about the reality we all have fissures, right, you know, no one, no one is an idol and there but there was an intentionality and a regimen to that intentionality that became habit. And I think that's one of the things that that I've learned through the pandemic is that, you know, how intentional Am I being? How intentional Are we being? And I hear that I hear that in your voices, or maybe I want to hear that, but I, I hear that in terms of how you have articulated this. And I,
that's very nice for you to say.
Yeah, I don't know if it's nice. I just hear it right. We appreciate it. That that. So I mean, first of all, you heard it here we had the first interview with these two Pittsburgh rockstars. So when you're like on Oprah, talking to Steven, cold bear, I want you to remember Jonathan kersting, Audrey Russo, Kennedy, and all the people that are on this call, because we're here as your champions. Well,
we're Pittsburgh kids. We're never ever, ever, ever going to forget where we come from.
It's just I'm very proud. I have goosebumps actually. That doesn't happen very often. I can't thank you both enough. And everyone go to Amazon share it. It's our responsibility to make this successful as well. Because you you're also helping us brand Pittsburgh, you're also doing those many pieces to this to this story that you're doing. You're You're branding, the experience here.
One person who who read the book early on, describe it to us as a love letter to Pittsburgh, which I can't say is something that consciously crossed our minds, but it absolutely i think it absolutely is that
listen, you've out shined Michael Shivam Okay, cuz he right, the lovely letter to Pittsburgh. No, right.
But I'll say one of one of our reviewers, Kyle Schwartz is a teacher in Denver and has written books and said, This book was fuel for me, I feel refueled as I reach, you know, this moment in the pandemic. And as I look ahead, and so ideally, it's also a fuel for the work that we have to do ahead.
Listen, you if you look in the chat, we'll save the chat, but you will get it to you guys who need to see what's being written in the chat. Lots of great comments, people ordering the book, I asked everyone, use social media share this. This is something we all should be proud of. And we we knew you win. Just remember, we knew you both win. So I want to
thank you to all those people. I just want to say to all those people in the chat, they're coming in like crazy. And it just yeah, it means so much. Thank you.
Thank you.
So we are wrapping up a week. And Jonathan, we're going right into another week. We'll save the chat for you guys so you can see it as well. So Jonathan, what do you think we're wrapping up a great week, what a great way to end it.
If this doesn't make you Pittsburgh, proud. I don't know what eksempel is. Why my black and gold flag St. Paul today, that's for sure you guys do some amazing work. Following this up on Monday is gonna be tough. But we have epidemic stopping by on Monday. They do some really crazy cool modeling and talking about modeling how the pandemic is going to spread, you name it, these guys can model it so we're gonna nerd out with them. And I cannot wait to order this book and check it out. You guys are insanely cool, man. Just love it.
Thank you, everyone. Be good,
everyone.
Thank you both for everything. Thank you.
Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai